🎙️Transcript: 1Up Sales Development Podcast
1Up Sales Development Podcast
"Sales Development with Ralph Barsi"
Jax Lieu, Ralph Barsi
July 2, 2021
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Summary
In this milestone episode marking the return of the 1Up Sales Development podcast, host Jax Lieu interviews Ralph Barsi, whom he reverently calls "the godfather of sales development."
With 28 years in sales and currently serving as VP of Global Inside Sales at Tray.io, Barsi shares his journey from delivering newspapers on a BMX bike to leading global sales development organizations.
The conversation delves deep into the fundamentals of human-centric selling, drawing from Barsi's early lessons learned from his grandfather (a Teamster in San Francisco) about establishing conversation flow and building rapport with customers.
Throughout the interview, Barsi emphasizes the importance of focusing on inputs rather than outcomes, personalizing outreach beyond surface level, and treating sales development as both a revenue pipeline and talent pipeline for organizations.
The discussion covers practical tactics for both inbound and outbound SDRs, including Barsi's "Three S's" framework (Source, Score, Status) and the concept of "org it out" for account mapping.
Barsi passionately advocates for more women in sales leadership, naming numerous female leaders who are "crushing it" in the profession. He also shares his leadership philosophy of doing things that don't scale - paying attention to each individual on the team and understanding their personal "why."
The interview concludes with Barsi's powerful message to new SDRs: represent the profession with the highest standards, do the right thing, and always give back and pay it forward. His parting wisdom emphasizes that many who have gone before believe in the potential of new sales professionals, asking only that they represent the profession well.
BIG Takeaways
• The Paper Route Principle: Human Connection Starts with Asking "How Do You Want to Be Served?" – Barsi's origin story of delivering newspapers as a kid, learned from watching his grandfather interact with San Francisco merchants, established his foundational sales philosophy.
By asking customers whether they wanted their newspaper on the porch or driveway during monthly collections, he learned that caring about what others want from your service is timeless.
This principle directly translates to modern SDR work: ask prospects how they prefer to be communicated with, what prompted their inquiry, and who else should be involved in conversations.
The human interaction and personalization that worked in 1981 with a Diamondback Silver Streak BMX bike works exactly the same way today - it's about serving people the way they want to be served, not the way you want to serve them.
• Focus on Inputs, Not Outcomes: The Line-Check System – Drawing from economist W. Edwards Deming's principle that "every system is perfectly designed to get the results it gets," Barsi advocates for SDRs to focus on their inputs rather than outcomes.
If you're not getting responses to 98% of emails, line-check your system: Do your emails have question marks? Are they open-ended questions that evoke responses? Are you explaining why you're reaching out? For inbound reps, master the three S's: Source (conversion rates vary dramatically between "contact me" leads and PDF downloads), Score (how your organization rates leads), and Status (where they are in the process).
For outbound reps, it starts with a fundamental question many organizations fail to answer: "Who do you want me calling?" This systematic approach to diagnosing problems shifts focus from complaining about results to fixing broken processes.
• Account Mapping and the YouTube Secret Weapon – Barsi's approach to outbound prospecting goes far beyond LinkedIn stalking. His "org it out" philosophy requires understanding all firmographic information, reading 10-K forms, and mapping key stakeholders across business units.
But here's the hidden gem: YouTube. Executives often speak on panels or give presentations that reveal their mannerisms, voice inflections, tone, and disposition. Spending five minutes watching them present gives you the ability to mirror and match them in conversation.
If they're not on social media, investigate their career history - two years versus eight years at a company tells different stories. Learn where they worked before and what problems their role typically faces industry-wide. This FBI-like approach (Barsi agrees with Jax's serial killer tracking analogy) to research enables genuine connection based on deep understanding.
• The Two-Way Street of Professional Development – When young SDRs complain about lack of development at fast-moving startups, Barsi's advice is both empowering and challenging.
First, you own your career - if you're not being taught, go find the information, people, and mentors (citing resources like David Dulany's TenBound and podcasts).
But crucially, before asking for help, establish yourself as a contributor of value. Lead with the SQOs you've created, the closed-won opportunities you've sourced, the response rates you've achieved, the teammates you've helped.
Jim Rohn's philosophy applies: "Don't bring me your need, bring me your seed." Only after demonstrating your value contribution have you earned the right to ask for additional guidance. This approach transforms the dynamic from entitled consumption to mutual value exchange.
• Women in Sales: From Zero to Essential – Barsi's advocacy for women in sales stems from personal experience - growing up in a career with all-male leadership tables where "something's off about that."
He mentors for #GirlsClub (Lauren Bailey/Factor 8) and Women in Sales, consistently championing female leaders like Trish Bertuzzi, Lori Richardson, Lauren Wadsworth, Gabrielle Blackwell, and many others who are "crushing it."
While acknowledging the problem is less severe today than when he started, Barsi emphasizes we need more females not just in sales but specifically in sales leadership. His commitment goes beyond lip service - he actively mentors, promotes, and creates content highlighting female sales leaders, recognizing their unique leadership approaches and styles that benefit the entire profession.
• Individual Inspiration at Scale: Do Things That Don't Scale – As a leader who grew ServiceNow's SDR team from 75 to 230 globally, Barsi's management philosophy centers on knowing each individual regardless of team size.
This means understanding their personal "why" and purpose - are they caring for ailing parents, saving for a home, planning to start a company? This knowledge helps leaders remove obstacles from reps' paths.
There's "a big difference between being on a team and being a team," and you achieve the latter by paying attention to individuals. When leaders focus solely on KPIs and "the business part of the business," they miss the "sweet people" who can lift all boats. This echoes Simon Sinek's definition of true leadership: looking someone in the eyes when they're struggling and genuinely asking "What's going on? Are you okay?"
• The Legacy Mindset: Represent the Profession with Highest Standards – Barsi's closing message to new SDRs transcends tactical advice, speaking to professional identity and legacy.
"There are many who have gone before you, who believe in you, who believe in your potential, who believe in your capabilities. All we ask is that you represent yourself with the highest standards because you're representing us." This isn't just about individual success but about stewarding a profession.
Every email, every call, every interaction either elevates or diminishes the entire sales development community. The covenant is simple: do the right thing, maintain high standards, and whatever you learn along your journey, always give back and pay it forward.
This philosophy transforms SDR work from a stepping stone job into participation in a professional lineage that extends both backward and forward in time.
Transcript
Jax Lieu (00:07):
All right. Hello, hello, hello, everybody. Welcome back to our edition of the 1Up Sales Development podcast. And this is it. This is it. One year in the making. This is one year in the making, guys. I am ecstatic, shocked, and surprised to have this individual come on to share his story, but more importantly, share some insights for our listeners today.
The 1Up Sales Development podcast is geared towards new and young SDRs and BDRs. Typically our listeners are between the age of 25 and 35, millennials, 80% males - so we got to bump that up for the females. We have some listeners in the UK, Ukraine, Indonesia, Africa too as well, but mainly in the States.
And I am happy to, proud to bring you guys this guest for the return of the 1Up Sales Development podcast. We all know that we've been on a break due to that personal issue, but I am so happy and thrilled to be back and bring this individual on.
Jax Lieu (01:52):
This guy is the godfather of sales development. He is the sales development philosopher. When I first joined - shout out to you, David Dulany at Tenbound - the first thing he told me when I came on board was "follow this individual."
This individual next up here is the mentor for Women in Sales, mentor for GrowthX, for the #GirlsClub, advisor of Loopio. Please give me a warm welcome for the one and only Mr. Ralph Barsi, VP of Global Inside Sales at Tray.io.
Ralph Barsi (01:52):
How you doing, Jax? Thank you for that kind introduction. My goodness.
Jax Lieu (01:57):
My God. Ralph, is that really you?
Ralph Barsi (02:01):
Yes. Is that really you?
Jax Lieu (02:03):
Yeah. And as we were talking about just in the backstage, I have never, never dressed up for anyone I've interviewed until today. Thanks for coming on, Ralph.
Ralph Barsi (02:17):
Hey, it's my pleasure. You look sharp as a tack. I like the flower on the lapel. You're looking good, man.
Jax Lieu (02:24):
Thanks, Ralph. You look good too as well.
Ralph Barsi (02:28):
Well, I do my best. I appreciate it.
Jax Lieu (02:32):
Well, Ralph, I've been following you for a very long time, and I'm really happy to have you on here. I follow your content religiously, and what really holds you apart - that always keeps me coming back - is your lifelong philosophy, which we'll dive into in a few moments.
You're a big reader - leaders are readers - but Jim Kwik talks about if knowledge is power, then implementing knowledge is your superpower. And that's where every time I listen to your podcast, other episodes that you've recorded - compared to the other SDR/BDR leaders out there, not to knock on them - but you're on the front lines doing it every single day.
So without further ado, why don't you just take it away, please let us know, give a brief introduction of who you are and what do you currently do and what's Tray.io?
Ralph Barsi (03:27):
Sure, sure. Well, so first of all, you talked about Jim Kwik, and that book is in queue for me. I'm not remembering the name of it. Do you remember the title of it, Jax?
Jax Lieu (03:39):
I haven't gotten his book, but a lot of his content. I think it's quick learning, those sort of courses.
Ralph Barsi (03:44):
There's one that he recently released, recently published rather, and I heard Jim speak as part of the Build Your Life Resume program, which is hosted by Jesse Itzler, and he had a lot of game-changer content.
And I really appreciate that you said, look, it's one thing to read voraciously and gobble up as much information and content as you can, but if you're not doing anything with it, if you're not applying it, let alone tailoring it to your own style, then it's pointless. So the whole theme is to give back to the community, give back to others based on what you've learned from the content or what you've written if you are a writer yourself.
So really appreciate that you mentioned Jim, because I've enjoyed his work and I can't wait to read that book. I just wish I could remember the name of it.
Ralph Barsi (04:40):
Anyway, to your question - so I've been in the sales game for 28 years, and I started out as an individual contributor. I did that for some time, pretty much half of my career. I was an account executive. And then the latter half, I really invested a lot of energy and time into building and leading teams.
And specifically over the last decade, that focus has been solely on sales development. I've really immersed myself in the sales development world because it means a lot to me. I like where it sits in the funnel in between marketing and demand gen and sales. I like its twofold objective of driving revenue pipeline for an organization as well as a people or talent pipeline for an organization.
And I feel like I can share a lot of insights and help people get where they're trying to go in their career. So today I lead the global inside sales organization, which essentially is sales development at Tray.io. Tray is based in San Francisco. We also have a team in London, and we help businesses solve integration automation problems.
So many businesses are dealing with the proliferation of applications today. And all of those applications have to talk to each other in order to create workflows and streamline business processes. And so Tray parachutes into the enterprise and helps them do that.
Jax Lieu (06:17):
Nice, nice, nice.
Ralph Barsi (06:19):
Yeah, so it's great to be here, Jax. I can talk about sales development all day long. It really, like I said, it means a lot to me. It's near and dear to my heart.
Jax Lieu (06:28):
Absolutely. So just to confirm, Tray.io pretty much integrates for the enterprises where they have troubles. It's like, "Hey, if you're using multiple tech stack solutions, if you're manually processing from here and over there, over time, you can save a lot more time using us to streamline if it talks to each other," like so-and-so said?
Ralph Barsi (06:50):
A hundred percent. And that even scratches the surface. It is what we call a general automation platform. So it's a holistic platform that impacts all business units across the enterprise and helps them integrate all the technologies in their tech stacks, like you said, and then they can drive business processes via automated workflows from those integrations, which is pretty cool. So there's systemic impact right away across the whole business.
Jax Lieu (07:19):
Automation workflow has got to be probably the simplest term to say it. Automation workflow.
Ralph Barsi (07:28):
Yeah, it's really important. Today a lot of businesses are going through what we call digital transformation, and a lot of that means taking the disparate systems and technologies that they have in their businesses and connecting the dots, making sure they're all married together so that they can get things done faster and more productively. And it's a fun time to be at a company like Tray.
Jax Lieu (07:54):
Nice, nice, nice. God, love technology, right? Makes it faster, stronger, smarter, smoother.
Ralph Barsi (08:03):
That's right.
Jax Lieu (08:05):
Ralph, yeah. You've been in sales for 28 years.
Ralph Barsi (08:11):
Yes.
Jax Lieu (08:11):
You started already.
Ralph Barsi (08:12):
God help us. That's a long time.
Jax Lieu (08:16):
Oh man. You're the godfather. What's your origin story? How did you get into sales? How were you exposed to it? I'm just curious.
Ralph Barsi (08:29):
Yeah, sure. So when I was a kid, I had a paper route. I used to fold newspapers, worked for the San Francisco Examiner and San Francisco Chronicle. And I would fold papers in my driveway and I would drive around on my BMX bike and deliver newspapers to the entire neighborhood.
And then at the end of every month, I would have to go collect. So I'd be literally knocking on doors, doing the accounts receivable piece of my paper route and got an opportunity to meet the whole neighborhood, to let them know that I was the kid on the BMX bike throwing the papers on their porch. Did they want it on their porch? Did they want it on their driveway, et cetera. And that's how I started to really learn about caring about what others want from your service or from your offering.
As I got older, all my friends and family kept telling me, "Hey, you need to go into sales. You've got that personality and that moxie that it would suit you well to be in sales."
Ralph Barsi (09:23):
And so right after graduating from college, I dove into a sales role at United Parcel Service. Couldn't have asked for a better company to start working with. They really taught me early on about the frameworks, the processes, the methodologies, the approaches of selling to businesses. And I learned a lot from that company.
And then got into technology super, super early during the dot-com boom and got an opportunity to sell for a company called CitySearch.com, worked for a company called Vertical Networks, and it went from there. I worked for a number of different really cool software companies in a lot of different industries, and I just found sales to be my gig very early on in life, and I haven't looked back.
Jax Lieu (10:26):
Nice, nice. Talking about the dot-com boom area.
Ralph Barsi (10:29):
Boom area.
Jax Lieu (10:31):
We love it.
Ralph Barsi (10:31):
Back in the day. Yeah, '99.
Jax Lieu (10:34):
Oh.
Ralph Barsi (10:36):
Early 2000s is when it blew up, and yeah, it was nuts.
Jax Lieu (10:40):
Oh man. Ralph, just to dive a little bit deeper here. So my cousins are really into BMX bikes. I'm talking about bikes that they fix up. It's the kind where people do tricks on, or it's shiny and silver, it's like 800 bucks to build and stuff. So you mentioned you're throwing newspapers, you throw in the front yard or maybe in the car. And how were you gathering information back where they said, "Hey, Ralph, I'd love it if you throw my newspaper on my front porch rather than the hood of my car"?
Ralph Barsi (11:19):
Yeah. Well, first things first, talking about BMX for any BMX aficionados out there - so I rode a Diamondback Silver Streak, and that bike was legit in 1981, 1982. So that was a big deal. And my brother rode a Haro Freestyle bike. So the tricks you're talking about from your family and friends - my brother, he had a freestyle BMX bike as well, which was pretty hot back in the day.
But anyway, to answer your question about how to cater to my customers, it was asking them. Just when I would go collect checks from them at the end of every month for a month-to-month subscription, I would ask the question, "Hey, how are things going anyway? Do you like where I'm throwing the paper? Would you prefer it on the driveway? Do you want me to place it right here on the porch? This is your newspaper. You're going to receive it the way you want to receive it. Tell me what you think."
And obviously people love that, and that type of human interaction and those types of questions apply today. None of that has ever changed, nor will it.
Jax Lieu (12:42):
Wow. Yes, yes. Was this - and just curious before we move on to the next conversation - but was this something that the manager taught you to in terms of personalization, humanizing the transaction, or were you just biking? How did you...
Ralph Barsi (12:59):
Yeah, thanks for asking that. Not really. No, it wasn't really - we didn't get that guidance from the newspaper company. With all due respect to the newspaper company, I learned that from my grandfather.
My grandfather was - God rest him - he was a Teamster in San Francisco, and he drove trucks when I was a kid, specifically to deliver goods to different businesses. And oftentimes he would grab me during the lunch hour and he would take me on a couple stops to meet some of the merchants in San Francisco.
And he would always get off the truck, go into the store, whether it be a delicatessen or an auto parts shop, and he would introduce me, and then he would just make his way through the whole place. He was very outgoing and extroverted and would meet everybody and would ask about the shipments that they were receiving from him and from his company.
And I just picked up on that through osmosis and by hanging out with him to learn how he would establish conversation flow with people, how he would build quick rapport with people that he was just meeting for the first time, and what types of questions he would ask and how he would make people laugh. And I just modeled a lot from the interactions my grandfather had with his customers.
Jax Lieu (14:26):
Oh, wow. Got it. God rest his soul. So what was his name?
Ralph Barsi (14:31):
Ralph Barsi. His name was Ralph Barsi. My father's name is Ralph Barsi. My son's name is Ralph Barsi.
Jax Lieu (14:42):
No way. So you're the third and your son's the fourth?
Ralph Barsi (14:46):
Yeah. We all have different middle names, so we don't have the traditional the first, second, third, fourth. We all have different middle names. So my grandfather was Ralph Anthony Barsi, and he was a special guy. I miss him a lot. So that's where I really learned how to jive and establish flow with people in conversation.
Jax Lieu (15:08):
Yeah. Wow. Okay. First things first, God rest his soul. Ralph Anthony Barsi, I'm sure he would be super proud of what you've done today.
And the reason I asked that too is because that's pretty much what's broken today too in sales development - that human interaction, just really humanizing things and just, "Hey, Ralph, how was that? Hey, you're getting service from me. I'm delivering newspaper for you. Was wondering, how are you doing? Is there anything I can do better to expedite your experience, cater to specifics?" Wow, you learned that early on.
Ralph Barsi (15:48):
Yeah, and you're right, Jax, there's some brokenness in sales development today with respect to that. Even in these initial emails, so many SDRs and BDRs are relying on automated sequences or cadences to get messaging into these prospects. And especially when it comes to targeted accounts, named accounts that you and your company want to do business with, you've got to be personal.
And I know it's constantly reiterated, but it's such a surprise to me how many people nod their head and go, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, personalization." And they just don't take it to the level it needs to be taken to.
So for example, if you're a BDR today or an SDR today, and you're struggling with getting responses to your initial messages, ask yourself a couple questions about your messaging. So number one, does it even explain why you're reaching out to the person?
Ralph Barsi (16:59):
For example, "Jax, you or someone from your company inquired about our offering. It's my responsibility to make sure that we serve you and make sure that we address any questions that you have. Oh, and by the way, what prompted you to look into us in the first place? How did you find out about us? How do you think we can help you?" So you have to ask that question.
You also have to ask, am I even asking a question in my email? Is there a question mark? Does it evoke a response from the recipient? Because if there's no question mark, no one has to respond at all. It's just information for them.
And then thirdly, the type of question that you're asking - is it a yes/no question, or is it an open-ended question, something that's going to engage them a little bit? Do you give them a couple multiple choices in terms of when you want to meet with them? How are you showing up?
Ralph Barsi (17:57):
Also, not everybody wants to necessarily meet with you right out of the gate. So many sales development professionals are immediately asking for the meeting, and they don't even know - the SDRs don't even know what the meeting's going to be about yet.
So instead be a little less invasive and a little more quality-focused to say, "Hey, look, if you think it makes sense to meet, let's look at calendars. But until then, based on what prompted your visit, here's some content that you might want to look into" or "Where are you with this in your decision-making process? Who else is involved? If we were to get on a call, who else would need to be on the call besides you?"
A lot of basic one-on-one fundamental stuff that you would ask people - it's not asked in these emails or in these initial interactions. And it breaks my heart because it's not that difficult.
Jax Lieu (18:53):
Yes, yes. There's that Barsi heat so far. Oh, you are absolutely right. There needs to be an increase in personalization and relevancy, right? "Hey, Ralph, it's Jax from Tray.io. Thanks for your submission over here on our webpage. I'm curious what sparked you to type in your name. Is this something we should be chatting a little bit further? Oh, by the way, there's some context. If so..."
Ralph Barsi (19:22):
Connect the dots for them too. Just say, "Look, I'm a sales development rep here, so it's my job to make sure you get initial questions answered and addressed. But also, let me tell you what happens next. What happens next is you and I have a conversation. I'm probably going to bombard you with 15 questions, but let me tell you why I am going to be asking those questions."
"I have a team of resources behind me that will help us tailor your experience so that we can best serve and accommodate you and your organization. So after you address my 15 questions on our call, I can pass the baton to the right people at Tray who can take it from here and do a deeper discussion with you to really learn your business initiatives, your strategic plans for the year, et cetera, because we intend to build a long-lasting business relationship with you. And we're just at the tippy top of it. We're just starting."
Jax Lieu (20:25):
Yep. Wow. Amazing. 100% agreed. And it's really the rep, right? Just really got to be there and say, "Look, Ralph, I'm just here. I'm just trying to help you."
Ralph Barsi (20:38):
That's right.
Jax Lieu (20:39):
"Please bear with me. I'm just trying to help you to see where would we go next. Best steps." Rather than just say "15 minutes of your time, 15 minutes of your time" and just throw it away, which becomes the commission breath. And then it's like, "Oh, screw this. Later."
Ralph Barsi (20:54):
Yeah. I think it's really important that SDRs focus more on their inputs than their outcomes. I think if you just focus on how you're crafting your messages, how you're opening conversations, how you're following up and following through, how you are teeing up an account executive for that second call, making sure that your notes are thorough, making sure that they string together a narrative for that account executive - that's what I mean by the inputs.
If you get rejected or you're not getting a response, instead of complaining and whining about it, you face inward for a moment and go, "What do I need to change? What is it about me that I need to fix? Because I think if I change, everything will change for me. So I might have to make a couple tweaks in order to change the path I'm on." And then you don't have to look at outcomes anymore. You don't have to keep track of the scoreboard if you know you are really focusing on leaning into your inputs.
Jax Lieu (22:00):
Input, focusing and leaning on the process and not the numbers, right? And accountability is basically what I'm hearing from you, which is, "What happened here? What can we do better? What can I do to team up? Hey, Ralph, this is the expectations that you guys were expecting. This is what you wanted me to do. Here's what I did. Here's the outcome. Is there anything I could have done better?"
Ralph Barsi (22:26):
Exactly. You're with me, Jax. You know what? It segues into your personal and professional development as well. So I hear a lot of sales development reps - fortunately I don't hear many of them - but I hear a lot of them complain that their companies aren't guiding them. They're not developing their skills and competencies.
And frankly, a lot of companies that I'm hearing these SDRs spouting from are brand new to the world. These are young SaaS companies that are early-stage startups and they're moving a thousand miles per hour. They're trying to drive revenue. They're trying to get on a healthy trajectory so that they can maybe go for more funding, et cetera. They're trying to serve big customers. While that is a focus for them, it may not be a top three priority.
So the good news is there are podcasts like yours. There's the work that David Dulany and the TenBound team are doing. There's a bevy of awesome resources in sales development to learn from. I can go for days naming people and naming resources for SDRs to learn from. So again, you've got to hold yourself accountable. If you're not being taught, go find the information, go find the people, go find the mentors. You own your career. It's up to you to get sharp. Don't rely on everybody to kind of be there to help you out all the time. Okay?
Jax Lieu (24:05):
Okay. Let me take a stab and piggyback this with you real quick. What you just said right there is super true. A lot of people, reps I talk with - "Hey, look, this is my first time. This company is fairly new. I just got brought on. We're here to scale." And nine out of 10 when the help is not there really, you got to somehow - somebody tells them, "You got to figure it out. Figure it out."
But the trouble is, Ralph, there's a lot of 22, 23-year-olds - "Hey, look, I'm just out of college. Screw this, my ego, I'm just going to keep going. What's my KPI? It's going to be 2x that" - and there's no results. But one of the biggest issues - I don't even know why it's even an issue - they know they need help, but they don't ask for it. True. What can we do? Or a few things that you can give that person advice that's perhaps listening to just, "Hey, look..."
Ralph Barsi (25:07):
Sure. There are a couple ways you can do this. First of all, if you are considering a company to join, ask them. "Talk to us about the professional development efforts that are taking place at this company. I, of course, want to grow in my career. I want to grow my competencies. I want to get better every single day. Tell me how this company can help me."
But always keep in mind that you too need to be a contributor of value. And so if you're at a company right now where you really want to just consume value - you want to consume value from an enablement team or the company or your boss, et cetera - it's a two-way street. You can consume all day long, but until you're a contributor of value, you're not becoming valuable in the process.
Ralph Barsi (26:23):
So it's really important that if you're going to go to your boss to, I don't know, voice a concern that you don't think you're developing your skills at that company, I would recommend that you first talk about the value you've brought in - the sales qualified opportunities that you've created, maybe the closed-won opportunities that you sourced. Maybe you talk about the number of emails that you've sent out that you've gotten responses to and you've booked meetings from. Maybe you share a little bit about your stats. Maybe you talk about teammates of yours that you've been helping out behind the scenes.
But start with the value you've been adding as a contributor. And then say, "Here's what I need. I need a little more guidance when it comes to this." But you've kind of earned the right to ask for it because you've started with showing the value you've been contributing. Does that make sense, Jax?
Jax Lieu (27:03):
Yes, yes, yes, absolutely. I'm a big fan of Jim Rohn, and one of his philosophy words is if you look at soil and you stare at it, it is going to tell you, "Don't bring me your need. Bring me your seed." And what I'm hearing from you is if this person, new rep that's not getting the results and not the help, they got to be treating it like a two-way process. You said if you want something, you got to give something. "Hey, Ralph, this is the KPI you gave me. I attacked it, attacked it, attacked it, did the best I can. Here are the results, but I think we need some help. What can we do?" Is that what that would kind of look like?
Ralph Barsi (27:56):
Yeah. So I'm a huge Jim Rohn fan as well. Big time. Oh, no way. Oh, big time. Big time. And I'm also a fan of an economist, a late economist named W. Edwards Deming. And Edwards said that every system is perfectly designed to get the results it gets.
And so for the SDRs listening, if you're not getting the results you're getting personally or professionally, then you need to line-check your systems. You have to go back and find where the kink in the chain is of the systems that you are implementing today.
So if you're not getting responses to 98% of the emails you're sending, you have to line-check. What do those emails say? Would I respond to them? Do they make sense? Do they evoke that response we were talking about earlier?
Ralph Barsi (29:17):
If people hang up on you or give you a bunch of attitude on the phone, line-check how well or not you're mirroring and matching that person when they answer the phone. If they answer the phone or get on a Zoom call with you and you say, "Hey, Jax, how you doing today? My name's Ralph" and Jax responds with, "I'm great."
Well then you need to switch gears super fast and go, "Hey, thanks so much for taking my call today. Here's what we're going to cover in the time that we have" and get right to business. But if Jax says, "Oh, hey Ralph, I'm Jax. What's up? How's the weather where you are?" Then roll with it, man. But that's what I mean by line-checking your systems. So if you're not hitting your numbers, go back and look at your process because I guarantee it's broken.
Jax Lieu (29:47):
Line-check, line-check. That's right. That's exactly what the world needs. Line-check. Ralph, to dive a little bit deeper on this, right? It's a rep doing it. What are a few advice or tactics they can do to funnel down and pinpoint the line-check of what needs to be looked at?
Ralph Barsi (30:14):
Oh, I love it. So let's say you are an inbound rep and you follow up on inbound leads. Well, there are three S's that you need to pay attention to: the source of that lead, the score of that lead - and hopefully your organization scores its leads - and the status of that lead.
So you have to understand the conversion rates of the various sources. Typically, if somebody comes in as a "contact me" lead, the probability of you converting that lead is going to be very high. If all they did was download a PDF from your website, the probability of them converting is going to be low. You have to have a very clear understanding of what the probabilities are by source so that you can prioritize every day what leads to follow up on and where you're going to get the most lift. That's what I mean by line-checking your system if you're an inbound rep.
Jax Lieu (31:17):
My goodness. Source, score, status. If you're an outbound rep?
Ralph Barsi (31:20):
You want me to switch?
Jax Lieu (31:22):
Yes, please.
Ralph Barsi (31:23):
Yeah. If you're an outbound rep, one of the first things you need to be asking your organization is, "Who do you want me calling?" So I mean, that's a pretty fundamental question, but you'd be surprised how many organizations have not given their BDRs a target account list.
And when they give them the target account list, they have to be very clear on the types of personas they want that BDR to initiate conversations with. BDRs who don't do well at outbounding don't understand the concept of account mapping, having a plan. So you plan your work and you work your plan.
Ralph Barsi (32:34):
If you take a look at a list of target accounts, you have to understand all the firmographic information about that account. You have to look at their 10-K form if one exists for them. You have to understand - you have to do what we call org it out - and you have to understand who are all the key stakeholders in various business units that we want to have conversations with.
And you have to look up all of the information that you can find on those people on LinkedIn, via ZoomInfo, et cetera, et cetera. And here's another great resource: YouTube. If you're calling into executives, it's likely that they have sat on a panel or facilitated a panel or done a talk on their own. And if you get an opportunity to listen to them present to an audience for five minutes, you're going to catch their mannerisms, the inflections of their voice, their general tone and disposition, and you will be able to meet them where they are when you initiate a conversation with them. And you'll have insights to drop when you're trying to engage with them in the first place, because you've really done your due diligence in looking them up.
Jax Lieu (33:28):
Man. Org chart thing. YouTube.
Ralph Barsi (33:32):
Yes.
Jax Lieu (33:33):
Oh my God. "Hey, org it out. Hey look, we're targeting this guy named Ralph Barsi. Oh, he's on YouTube, man, let's see what he's all about. Let's feel him out." And when you do that, you now have a feel of what kind of person this is. What does he like? How can I communicate where it can draw common ground to the point where to increase the chances of you responding because you like me, I did research and I know you and how to communicate with you through this glass board.
Ralph Barsi (34:01):
Correct. Now, oftentimes there are people who aren't on LinkedIn or they're not building their brand. They're not out there on YouTube. So here are a couple things you're going to want to think about. How long have they been at the organization they're at? Have they been there two years or have they been there eight years?
Big difference between the two. If they've been there two years, where were they before? What company or companies did they work for? And start learning about those companies and those processes so that you can try to find some common ground to meet them with when you do engage.
Also try to find out what are the biggest problems their personas or their titles are dealing with today in the industry. So my friend John Barrows, for example, every year gathers insights on top problems that various personas are trying to handle, biggest challenges they're trying to deal with, so that when you do initiate a conversation with a certain persona, you can bring out key issues that their counterparts and colleagues are dealing with across the industry.
And then you can ask, "How would you stack rank that problem in your business? Is it number one, something you want to address immediately? Or is it number five, something you'll get to in the next fiscal year? Based on the conversations I've had with people in your role, and based on my research, it sounds like this is a pretty hot problem. Well, that's why I'm calling because I think we can get acquainted and tell you how we've helped other businesses fix it."
Jax Lieu (35:40):
Oh my god, Ralph Barsi. Okay. So what we're hearing is, hey, look, personalization, research, find out something that stands apart. Yeah, whatever. But if they're not - the content's not out there, they don't have a Twitter, there's no personal branding, they're not on YouTube - you want to go into their history. Okay, how long have they been there? Either two or eight years. Huge difference. Where were they before? And then just collecting resources, kind of mapping it out where it's a wall where you're like an FBI tracking a serial killer, and you have these red threads and you're searching where they were before, finding that pattern and making that the point of entry.
Ralph Barsi (36:30):
That's quite an analogy. Yes. That's...
Jax Lieu (36:33):
Crazy. Ralph, I want to ask you something real quick here just before we turn point. Of course. You were an AE over at UPS, very familiar with UPS logistics, walking around. I have a relative who's an AE - well, he's an operating director for FedEx. He actually took me on a few road trips before when I just graduated three years ago when I got into BDR.
Normally when I chat with people who's in these type of fields - Paychex, ADP, UPS, FedEx logistics, outside B2B rep, Cintas, whatever - nine out of 10, normally they would go for medical device sales because that's the point of entry from there.
Ralph Barsi (37:24):
Oh, interesting.
Jax Lieu (37:25):
What got you into technology instead of doing that? Because most people from that I talked to with that background goes to work for MedFusion and these medical device sales or pharmaceutical sales. Interesting. What made you go to tech?
Ralph Barsi (37:43):
Well, for me, it was our place in history. I worked at UPS from 1994 to 1999, and the dot-com boom we were talking about earlier was happening all around me. And I am from the Bay Area. And so I knew about all the companies in Silicon Valley that were popping up. I saw the evolution of the internet and email and laptops. It was all happening in the late nineties.
And although I loved UPS and am forever grateful and indebted to them for what they taught me while I was there, I wanted in on this technology wave. Now, of course, I didn't know that in early 2000 it was going to blow up, but obviously in retrospect, we know that tech absolutely recovered and has done just fine. And it's also not going anywhere. In fact, it's only going to evolve from here. And it just appealed to me. I thought it was hip, I thought it was now, and I thought I could be a significant contributor to this new movement that was happening.
Jax Lieu (39:07):
Got it. Makes sense. So you saw the wave was like, "I'm just going to go, I'm in."
Ralph Barsi (39:13):
I'm in.
Jax Lieu (39:13):
Tech's around me. Well, yeah, you grew up in San Francisco, the tech hub. That totally makes sense.
Alright, Ralph, something I really wanted to ask you and get your thoughts - and this is why I'm so happy you're on, because when we started the 1Up Sales Development podcast, it was like, "Hey, just interviewing who" and it was majority of males. And I saw that. I was like, "Oh fuck dude, this doesn't look good. We got to show some love to - we got to start fixing things up."
And I noticed from the research, you're a huge advocate for women in sales, females in sales. You're a mentor for Girls Club. Where is that just supporting the females? I'm curious to get your thoughts here because I truly believe the females in sales - they don't get the credit they deserve. Sometimes positions and things come out where a dude would get it when she would do 10 times better. What's your thoughts there? What are a few things we can do to help empower females in sales? And in your eyes, is there even a problem with females in sales?
Ralph Barsi (40:29):
Is there what was the last question?
Jax Lieu (40:31):
Is there even a problem or barrier with females in sales? Just curious.
Ralph Barsi (40:36):
Oh, good question. So first of all, I think we need more females in sales, period, and more specifically in sales leadership. I grew up in my career with all male leaders sitting around the conference table, not one woman present. And something's off about that, don't you think?
So I have been a big proponent and a big advocate of having more women in sales and sales leadership positions. I've also had the privilege of being able to work with and getting to know so many strong, awesome female leaders that I look up to because of their leadership approach, their style.
And I think it's less of a problem today, Jax, than it was when I was coming up. And there are some incredible associations and groups out there today to shine a brighter light on all the fabulous female leaders that are out there.
Ralph Barsi (41:45):
A couple that come to mind - you mentioned at the beginning of the call, I'm honored to be a mentor for Girls Club. It's run by Lauren Bailey of Factor 8. She has an incredible team of mentors and proteges really driving this whole thing forward. And it's just a real pleasure to be part of what they're doing.
And of course, you mentioned Women in Sales. That's another incredible association that's shining a bright light on awesome ladies in the field. And then there's just so many leaders, like I said, that I've worked with and I've gotten to know over the years that I would highly recommend your audience take a look at.
And it runs the gamut from Trish Bertuzzi and Lori Richardson to Becca Holland, Nicolette Mullenix, Becky Sue Epstein, Alexine Mudawar. Lauren Wadsworth. It goes for days. Yeah, there's just so many awesome ladies out there that are crushing it. Another one is Gabrielle Blackwell. She is just crushing it in our profession and leading from the front. I could go on and on. It's just everybody needs to start paying attention to what they're doing.
Jax Lieu (43:05):
Yeah, yeah. No kidding. No, I love Lauren Wadsworth. If you're listening, shout out to you. We actually interviewed her over at TenBound for the blog too as well. And I'm glad you brought up Trish Bertuzzi. I have her book right here. When I first started, the first book that the guy who was training me got me - the book right here. And then that's the first time I actually saw you too. Your words are in there, Ralph Barsi. So you read that?
Ralph Barsi (43:31):
Yes. Yeah.
Jax Lieu (43:33):
Honored to be part of that book.
Ralph Barsi (43:34):
Honored to be part of that book.
Jax Lieu (43:36):
Yeah, no kidding. Trish Bertuzzi, if you're ever listening to this, thank you for all you do. And empowering the females in sales is a shameless plug - perhaps maybe one day get her on here too.
Ralph Barsi (43:48):
Trish is awesome.
Jax Lieu (43:49):
Yeah, the Bridge Group. The Bridge Group.
Ralph Barsi (43:52):
That's right.
Jax Lieu (43:53):
Ralph. So I know we're running up the time here. And just before we go, you've been in sales for a very long time. Sales development, technology changes fast that you have to be even faster. You worked your way up the ranks - UPS, AE, and then technology sales and then sales development, and you really threw your stuff out there.
I did a lot of research on you. One of the blogs that you were in really stood out to me and I wanted to pick your brain, your mind process. So for those who want to run and be successful when running a huge sales development team, one of the things that stood out for me from you was you inspire individuals and not as a team, not as a whole - as individuals.
Ralph Barsi (44:48):
That's right.
Jax Lieu (44:49):
What's your thought process there?
Ralph Barsi (44:52):
Yeah, well, I think deeply about that. So first of all, I think you have to do the things that don't scale when you're a leader. And what that means is you really have to pay attention to each individual on your team regardless of how big your team is.
You have to put in even more effort in that case to get to know as best you can every individual in your organization, and more importantly, as much as they will disclose and share with you, get acquainted with their why and their purpose as to what they're trying to accomplish and why they're there in the first place. And when you can get everybody flying in formation and understanding that there's a big difference between being on a team and being a team, you cannot lose.
Jax Lieu (45:43):
Oh my God. That's the Barsi fire. That's why you're the VP of Global Inside Sales at Tray.
What you just said to me right there was like magic to my ears. I am also a huge Simon Sinek fan. People don't buy what you do. They buy why you do it. And Simon, in one of his pep talks he says, a true leader is someone who really - if you're going through a bad day, rather than saying, "Hey, you better hit your numbers or you're out" - a true leader is someone like you who would really sit down when you notice something's wrong. And Simon Sinek says they really care if he looks into your eyes and he asks you a question and he really cares, "Hey, what's going on? Are you okay?" That's all it takes.
Ralph Barsi (46:40):
But people don't do it.
Jax Lieu (46:41):
They don't do it.
Ralph Barsi (46:42):
Well, a lot of people do do it, which is the good news. But there's, on the other hand, many who don't. They are so focused on those numbers and those KPIs and the business part of the business that they're missing - they're missing the boat. They've got some sweet people that are on their team that can really lift all boats and move that company forward. And if they just pay attention for a minute and tap into the talent that they have in their very organization, they can go really, really far.
Jax Lieu (47:20):
My goodness. Ralph, just to wrap things here with due respect, I want to say again, thank you so much for coming on for the return of the 1Up Sales Development podcast. We're truly blessed to have you here.
Final question for you, before we get to just how best way to reach out, special thanks and stuff - if there is a new rep today that's listening and says, "One day I want to be where you're at, Ralph. I want to be where you're at right now," what advice do you have for that individual?
Ralph Barsi (47:54):
Wow. That there are many who have gone before you, who believe in you, who believe in your potential, who believe in your capabilities. All we ask is that you represent yourself with the highest standards because you're representing us. You're part of our profession. So represent all of us, make us all look good and just do the right thing. And whatever it is that you learn along your journey, always, always give back and pay it forward.
Jax Lieu (48:30):
God, Ralph, thank you so much. That's what I really love about you. Honestly. You're big on giving back. You are huge, big on giving back. And you even mentioned that on a few podcasts too. I listened to earlier episodes, man. Thank you so much.
Ralph Barsi (48:51):
Well, I'm grateful, Jax. I'm grateful. A lot of people have helped me out along the way. I've not gone this road alone. And thank you to you for giving back by way of this podcast. I think 2021 will be a great year for the 1Up podcast, and I'm grateful for what you're doing for our profession and our community. And keep up the good work.
Jax Lieu (49:16):
Thank you so much, Ralph. We truly appreciate you. And if there's anyone who wants to reach out and say thank you, what's the best way to do so?
Ralph Barsi (49:25):
Oh, awesome. Best way to reach me is connecting with me on LinkedIn. Just do me a favor and send me a little note along with your invitation request. Don't just click Connect because I don't know who you are, so you got to give me some context. Connect with a pitch.
But yeah, it's Ralph Barsi on LinkedIn. It's @rbarsi on Twitter. You can follow my blog at ralphbarsi.com, and those are real easy ways to get in touch with me and I reply to every single message that I get.
Jax Lieu (49:58):
Oh my God. Ralph, thank you again so much for coming on to 1Up Sales Development podcast. We truly appreciate you.
Ralph Barsi (50:07):
Thanks so much, Jax. I appreciate you as well. Thanks for having me on.